I've found religion to be mainly useless in Skyrim as the Princes do not actually play a HUGE role in the fate or outcome. Also they mainly seemed just too self-righteous to worship. The only decent quest I found for one so far was Meridia's for the Dawn Breaker sword. Ky, you worship yourself I assume.
In life, I found being a severely abused child, that "God" or whomever didn't seem to hear my pleas. My siblings and I used to be lowered down the dry well on our farm for amusement, left there for hours, day and night. During which I would pray to anyone listening for help, release, anything...I've never felt "faith" whatever that may be and never believed that anyone (but myself) was looking after me. I'm very interested in people's religious beliefs and how their faith developed and was sustained. Paul has created such a diverse group that I would truly love to know your thoughts on this.
FRIENDLY discussions only!!! Please, PLEASE do not insult or degrade anyone else for their religious beliefs, even if they are Raelian.
Paul, if this topic is too controversial, I will not be offended if you remove this thread.
I really like Daedric quests, although I mostly do them for the quest items - not to mention the guards that talk to you afterwards about the quest - for example after wearing Namira's quest, they say "Your breath is horrible. What have you been eating!", which I found to be pretty hilarious considering what you just did.
As for religion, I was raised in Islam, although I myself find myself leaving a more spiritual attitude. Sure, I may get into it later in life, but as of right now I do not find myself drawn to it. I just find the more I learn about it, the more problems I have with it. Of course, it is the exact opposite for a lot of people!
I'm going to be watching this like a hawk
If there are ANYTHING which denigrates or mocks other people's religious faith, then the thread WILL be closed and people may be subjected to further moderator action. So be warned. My experience is threads of religion do not end well on the Internet
But I'll let it go for now. I guess it will tell us just how 'grown up' this site is
Thanks, Paul. It seems most people on here are quite tolerant and accepting which is why I started this thread here in the first place. Not to mention the diversity of the group which I hope leads to lively, intelligent conversation and not bedlam and ignorance.
We will keep in mind you are circling from above, although I was more picturing the buzzard from Bugs Bunny...my Momma done told me, get something for dinner. :P Joking don't ban me.
I didn't do Namira's quest. I'll have to look into that one, Bilal. What exactly are you eating, tho?!!
Wow, and are your parents upset that you have deviated from your faith? My Dad and Step-mom are devout Catholics and he always tells me the same thing you just said "you will find God in later life." Maybe since he did, after all he was NOT a nice person in his younger years.
Is it just fear of death or searching for something other as we pass from one plane, not sure. I can't see myself finding some lost faith since I never had any to start with. I envy people that can believe in something. I found out a long time ago that I believe in me. I guess that has to be enough.
Not even religious music at that. :P
I know, my parents used to get mad at me all the time over it. It's not like it's something I can change about myself. You either believe a thing or you don't.
I agree with you that a good set of morals are the most important thing. My friend and I had a conversation where he adamantly refused to believe that you could have good morals without religion. Since I feel that I am a good person that tries my best to do right by other people, I think that logic fails. I'm not a saint but I do try to do what my conscience tells me is right.
Religion would be alot more interesting if we all worshipped daedra lords.
Sadly i find that on the whole religion seems to cause more problems than it solves. When nations are fighting each other over something that was originally one persons clever business idea, i simply cant get on board. I'll stick to putting cat heads on avatars.
I'll completely concur with all that you said, Mason. More people have died from religious persecution than all the world wars combined. I feel that some people really need that in their lives for whatever personal reasons. Alas, the harm that it brings seems to totally and completely outweigh the little good that it causes.
I like the Greek gods, a little ram blood here, a virgin there.... much better than centuries of holy wars!
One thing I find a bit odd about the whole religious schtick in Skyrim is that it seems like as Dragonborn your afterlife is very much in question (SPOILERS WILL ENSUE, YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!):
When you do Daedric quests, generally the implication is that you have become a worshipper of whichever Lord you just assisted, some asking more explicitly than other (Meridia commanding you to use Dawnbringer to spread her worship, Peryite telling you that if you spare any Afflicted they'll spread his doctrine through their illness, etc.), and are thus bound to their realm of Oblivion after your death.
Doing the Thieves' Guild questline similarly binds you to Nocturnal.
Same with the Companions and Hircine.
Joining the Dark Brotherhood implies that your soul now belongs to Sithis.
And at the end of the main quest, Tsun tells you you've got a place reserved in Sovngarde.
And finally, there's the fact that, since you have the soul of a dragon as Dragonborn, Akatosh likely has some sort of claim to you.
In and of themselves these all seem reasonable. The snarl comes when you realize that you can have all of these circumstances at once. I doubt even Tamriel's foremost theologians could explain what'll happen to the Dovahkiin when he or she finally kicks it.
Each soul can be bound to a realm of Oblivion, otherwise people get to die, see all the traumas of the world, float to Aetherius... get caught before in the 'dreamsleeve', brainwashed as they see the 'other side' while stuck in the trap Lorkhan made, and get sent back to Nirn. It's a pretty dreary religious truth in Tamriel. A number of elves just want to blow the bloody thing up and break that trap so that horrid cycle doesn't repeat itself.
Seems like the Daedra/Aedra have different relative ranks so they might be able to fight over who gets who's soul unless you're already in that realm then I think you're stuck.
Good point. But after all, aren't all religious doctrines as convoluted as possible? So Skyrim is just following the status quo. The harder it is to explain, the better to confuse the masses. Then you can have "priests" to explain it all. There, now don't you feel better.
I like the idea of the various temples and the likes in Skyrim, I always found it adds that extra layer of immersement. The Daedra are by far more interesting of course, but the worshipers of Talos, Dibella, and Stendarr really are all quite amusing in ways. The whole religious question of 8 divines vs. 9 divines and the various ways in which they present themselves to different races is fascinating.
My thoughts on real religion, well, I was born an Anglican and converted when I realized I didn't believe in a lot of the vicious aspects of other protestant denominations. Right now I'm something of an Agnostic that still believes tradition itself plays a social role in society. I support the Roman Catholic church and believe in many of the fundamental tenants of Christianity.
Yet, I believe that there had to be a variety of faiths in order for others to know intrinsic truths as well. It's why I have a generally good opinion of quite a few religions though of course I'd be disagreeing in minuta and certainly I believe that oppressive aspects of 'religious' theology steeped in an old paternalistic society are misguided. I just don't think that there is a single path without recourse or else it can't be a fair, good, or just system. Thus I do believe God is manifest in many different forms according to how people will best understand a message. Basically, the old adage "seek and ye shall find".
There was something Shannon said that is true and bothers me, the notion that you can't have good morals without religion. I think you can. Solar Ethics (essentially 'God' is only a focus point of universally accepted morals that are still entirely good when we remove him) are a possibility whether I like the whole message or not. More over I somewhat agree with what Mason said, to me religions aren't necessarily the problem, it's people using religions as a justification and veil for their actions that bothers me. But I'm certainly not about to say no religion=no conflict or something like that (which I've heard before many many times).
But I'll agree with Pope John Paul II's quote here:
“'The rights to religious freedom and to respect for conscience on its journey towards the path of truth is increasingly perceived as the foundation of the cumulative rights of the person. This heightened sense of dignity of the human person and his or her uniqueness, and the respect due to their journey of conscience, certainly represents one of the positive achievements of modern culture.”